Muslims and the West [Part - 1 France] - Instablogs
Muslims and the West [Part - 1 France]
Michael C , Lyon: Oct 17 2008
Made Popular Oct 17 2008
France :

Muslims and the West [Part - 1 France]

I am appalled by the current state of world affairs, and if you are a Westerner or a Muslim you should be too.

It is striking how ignorant the West is of the Muslim world, and the worst critics of it come from people who have never (or hardly) visited a Muslim country.

(Now I’m just going to copy and paste the last sentence and change two words around. Simple).

It is striking how ignorant the Muslim world is of the West, and the worst critics of it come from people who have never (or hardly) visited a Western country.

This is the first of several articles from the West, designed to explain the West and it’s attitude to Islam from an ordinary Westerner’s point of view.

(Health Warning : If you are a Western hate monger who sees nothing but evil in the in the East, or a Muslim hate monger who sees nothing but evil in the West, you will NOT like what follows).

————————————————————————

This is the world of world-wide internet, TV, radio, press, global travel, cultural exchange and global solutions, but, incredible as it may seem, there is just as much mutual defiance and hate and ignorance and hate as there was 500 years ago!!

Yep, it’s like living in the middle-ages. All over again.

The responsibility for this lies with western imperialists, religious terrorists, protestant purists and the global jihad against the West. These people all have something in common, which is their self-serving goals of world power and domination. These people are hijacking what should be mechanisms of peace and human (as opposed to ideological) federation, and they are using them towards their own ends. If they succeed, be they Western fascists or Islamofascists, the world will return to obscurantism.

But, not all Westerners are imperialists, and not all Muslims are terrorists...

Here is what’s happening in France, and how the French perceive Muslims.

Overview
France is a country of around sixty million inhabitants, roughly seven million of which are Muslims of Northern African origin (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia). The French have two terms to describe them. They are called “Arabs” by the French who don’t like them (they are French rascists) and they are called “Muslims” by those who either appreciate them or who have no animosity towards them. Yes, you read right. The word “Muslim”, here in France, has a positive connotation, and most people here have respect for Muslims. The Muslims here are majoritarily peaceful and they respect France.

There is however a small minority, (mostly younger Muslims) who are hostile to the West and the French (they are Muslim rascists). The Muslim population is, by and large, well accepted, although there is, like in any country, racism to be found in the areas of employment, housing, bars and nightclubs. Anti-Muslim jokes or humour are not appreciated at all, unless you happen to be a racist.

Fear of the Muslim world.
Since 9/11 attention has naturally been focused upon Islamic terrorism, and Muslims can be expected to be searched more often at airports and at borders. Anti-terrorist measures have been adopted here (see para violence and Terrorism). All this means that there is more talk about the Muslim world, the image of which has suffered here.

The French are ferocious opponents of all Muslim practices involving the unequal treatment of women, cultural limitations, public executions and honour killings. They are particularly, and unanimously, against the spread of Integrism. All of this though has in no way had a negative effect on French opinion of Muslims themselves, and the French in their majority have an enormous amount of sympathy for moderate Muslims and Muslim countries.

The Muslim faith in France
Relations between France and the Muslim faith have, despite world events, actually improved over the last ten years. This is witnessed by the state-sponsored (in the political sense) creation of “The Muslim Council”. This body is the link between the moderate Muslim community and French institutions and is uniquely composed of Muslims, who elect their representatives. It helps in the building of Mosques, of which there are more and more, although certainly not enough. It also dialogs with the government on such issues as incorporating Muslim practices into French law.

Successes include the creation of state-sponsored Muslim schools, in which the Muslim faith is taught, and the softening of certain employment conditions during Ramadan. Failures include the interdiction of Muslim women only swimming pools, the demand that Muslim women be examined only by Muslim women doctors in state-hospitals and the killing of animals at home. The Muslim Council also dialogues with other religious organisations (mainly Jewish and Catholic).

The Press
It is forbidden in France to publish or express material which incites hatred of, or violence towards, Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) or their faith. Criticism is, of course, permitted, although quite frankly there is not much of it. It is also forbidden to mention the religion, or even the names, of criminals (in order to avoid racial/religious identification) with the exception of cases of national interest or where publishing the religion of someone is relevant, as in terrorism cases. There are no hard and fast guidelines and there are polemics surrounding certain cases, but in general this works well. There are also, of course, a small number of right-wing press organisations who often find themselves in trouble with the law, but they are very much a minority.

On the sensitive subject of negative depictions of Allah, the press, and French people in general, do not accept this as being wrong. The satirisation of religions is considered as being synonymous with free speech, and this is not going to change. Almost all religions are targeted, and not just the Muslim faith. France will not accept that religious law, or religious practices, control what is, or is not, diffused by the press. It has to be said though that this kind of satire is rare. The proof? When it DOES happen, it becomes worldwide news. Satire does not however include the right to the incitation of hatred or violence.

Terrorism and Violence
There are almost no (with the exception of the fascists of the National Front) instances of violence towards Muslims perpetrated by the French. Violence in public does sometimes occur between bands of French teenagers and what they call “Arabs”. But this is based on the fact that they are of Maghrebin origin, not Muslim origin, and has more to do with immigration than anything else. On the other hand, violence towards, and the gang-raping of, Muslim women by Muslim men is on the rise, and this is unanimously condemned here. There has also been a rise in the murder of Muslim women by Muslim men in the form of “Honour Killing”. This has shocked public opinion. Examples include the burning alive of a young woman in a rubbish bin near Paris and the stoning to death of another young Muslim girl in Marseille.

The perpetrators went to prison for an incompressible life sentence. This was a move to satisfy French public opinion which, a couple of years ago, was beginning to turn against Muslim culture in general because of these events. This was a dangerous moment, but things seem to have calmed down recently. In fact the only religious violence in France is between young Muslims and Jews. It’s a regular occurence, but it does not involve the French of Western origin. Sometimes this leads to the degradation of synagogues and mosques and graveyards. The French are trying to stop this, and penalties are severe. It is widely seen however as an extention of the Intifada and traditional Jewish/Muslim animosity and is not considered to be of Franco/French origin. A more recent phenomena is the notable upsurge in violence perpetrated by bands of young Muslims at the end of Ramadan. The press does not talk about it much (maybe in the hope that it will die down).

Islamic terrorism is rare here, largely due to the efficiency of the French Intelligence Services, with the aid of infiltrators of arab origin. There have been allegations of mosques being bugged in order to listen to the sermons of the Imams. This is almost certainly true. Some Imams have been expelled from France, with their families, for incitation to violent combat against France and/or the West. The same goes for any foreigner, Muslim or not, caught advocating violence. Many terrorist attacks have been thwarted during the planning stage, and those involved are often young Muslims from the suburbs of big towns who have espoused the ideas of Jihad. The vast majority of Muslims have no sympathy for them.

In 1995 however, a group of muslim terrorists carried out a string of attacks in Paris and elsewhere, killing nine people and injuring dozens. One of the terrorists, an Algerian called Khaled Kelkal, had already professed his hatred of the West and this led to his downfall. He was well known to the police, and his habits were known. This led to him being located and killed by anti-terrorist police near Lyon. He was apparently surrounded and armed, and was shot while trying to give himself up with his hands in the air and his gun on the ground. This is a common policy in the West except for “valuable” suspects, and is designed to stop more terrorism to put pressure on governments to free prisoners. This event led to some rioting in predominantly Muslim suburbs, which, again, did nothing to harm French respect for Muslims in general. There have been no notable incidents since then.

French Foreign Policy
France is committed to the global war on terrorism. Its attitude is that the West should attack terrorism before it reaches Western countries. However there is no evidence that this policy is designed to combat Muslims because they are Muslims.

Conclusion
I have tried to relate a few facts as objectively as possible. There is no official anti-Muslim propaganda here in France, and almost no criticism of the Muslim faith in public debate. The French don’t care if you’re Muslim or not as long as you respect their (Western) way of life. On the other hand they see no justification for terrorist violence on religious or any other grounds, and they do not see eye-to-eye with certain Muslim practices, particularly those thought to be barbaric or cruel. They will not accept that these practices happen in France. All religions are welcome here, but the French do not like religion to be overtly expressed in public, whatever the faith.

I can give you two examples of this. I was talking to a French friend a while ago. She had been to the airport to pick up a friend on a flight from Algeria after Ramadan and, while the passengers were coming out into the airport, she was shocked to see several Algerian women pushing trolleys full of luggage whilst their husbands (I suppose) walked ostentatiously behind them. “This is degrading for women, they are being treated like slaves” she said “and it should be banned”. That’s a typical French reaction...

I saw a very poor-looking beggar last year. He was kneeling upright on the ground, in christian fashion, in the middle of the street, head bent forward, hands clasped together in an attitude of prayer, with a bowl in front of him. I had never seen anything like it, and he looked so poor and sad that I gave him some money and asked him if he was ok.

He was Albanian and he told me that hardly anyone gave him money, so I explained that the French probably didn’t appreciate his way of doing things and that maybe he should change his tactics. I saw him a few months later, opening the door to the Post Office for clients. We chatted a while and he told me that from the day he stopped praying for money, he got much more.....

This, ladies and gentlemen, is France. Be who you are, but be peaceful...

Next article in a while. The subject? Oh, either Britain, or Europe, or...the dreaded United States!!

Michael C

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2 Stars
Maria Tiu
Singapore, Singapore
I love the pic!
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Oh really? Is that your eye? LOL!! (Only joking...)

Me too. I googled ”peace” and there it was, all alone and pleading to be put on this article.

(Incidentally, it was interesting to see that there are lots of ”hippie” peace photos too!!! I thought hippies died out with dinosaurs but, oh well, can’t be right all the time!!)

Thanks for your comment Maria.
1 Stars
Oscar
Oaxaca, Mexico
Michael,
ths picture, to begin, is FABULOUS. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could ALL invision peace.

I too am confused and ignorant regarding muslims and the Islamic faith. Here in Mexico, it is very rare to come across Muslims or at least to see them practicing their faith. We have a very large population of Arabians, Palstinos and Pakistani’s, who tend to be very wealthy and mingle within the extreme upper class (maybe that’s why I don’t know them. :)

I have never really had a real opinion, either way. I guess I’ve just been blind. I’ve never felt hatred or thought that they were/are part of a terrorist movement, nor did I know of the fact they too, believe in God and Christ...this only confused me more.

I DO WANT TO LEARN. Although I am not part of the ignornant population who spew lies and hate at something I know nothing of, I am simply void of any knowledge or opinion. I don’t understand the HATE nor INTOLERANCE that is being passed upon the Muslims or BY the Muslims.

It seems odd to me that religion seems to get manipulated regardless of race, creed, or nation; until it globally becomes the ”root of all evil”.

It seems to me all religions have forgotten about HUMANITY and HUMANISM in their attempt to stronghold followers and convert the faithless heathens..

Maybe if we could all begin our own search mission, starting with ourselves, we could bring the good back to this nasty world as a whole....which just might lead us to the mysterious peaceful, and beautiful place we all hear about.. Maybe heaven is only a global ”honest and tolerant” wink away...if we could all just get on track and remember there is no need for God’s or any God’s RULE , if there are no HUMANS to follow.

Your posts always provoke me into thinking and dwelling for days.. It is like those beloved childhood fables, where you first learn, then reflect the moral and values within yourself.

Thank you Michael. I have told you before and I’ll tell you again. You are a gem in this world. You have the power to open doors that people of every color, faith, and creed will enter, comfortably, as they know no malicious powers will be found within your walls.

Thanks again Michael.
Peace/Paz
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Wonderful piece of writing. An article in itself. Yes, it does seem that religions, and western values, are being instrumentalised right now. Everybody just seems kind of lost and confused.

I find it such a shame that ordinary Muslims and Westerners ”take sides” in this tragically ideological battle with all its inevitable carnage, and, if god IS looking at this spectacle, I don’t think he’s siding with anyone involved in it.......
2 Stars
Oscar
Oaxaca, Mexico
I believe that 110%.. If God/Gods or the man on the moon running this show is watching over this b.s., I can’t imagine he’d take either side.
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
I think I’m in love with the both of you?!?
Needless to say, you both are beautiful people that I have grown so fond of, and to think that’s only through your words and minds, nothing else! I’d worry about meeting either of you.
Oscar, I know what you mean about not wanting to know...the truth is, when I knew more, I was confused more as well, and I was lost among people who don’t care to know anything but their own truths, it’s all very dark, very subjective, and all very judgmental
Michael, I’m speechless. You have opened so many people’s eyes on so many things that I fear people try so hard on shutting out despite obvious signs and hints.
Your objectivity demands respect and admiration, and your word flow has NOT allowed me to blink. How dare you think this would put me to sleep! Your humbleness is shameful:P
Many of the things you have mentioned were reasons I loved France and felt like it was truly a home to me. Though personally, as a woman of color I have experienced some discrimination in the West, the French tended to treat me with a certain tinge of respect and awe, for my mind, my language, and mostly, my origin.
TO sum it up and not put YOU to sleep, I can’t wait for Part.2
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Oscar
Oaxaca, Mexico
Sarah,
If the three of us stick together, we might be able to make a nice little dent in society, maybe not a big one, but enough to prove : We did not live an existance of ignorance.

Michael, my friend, as long as you continue opening your doors, I will continue entering. You enlight the world..Keep up the incredible work!
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Right. We do not live in a world of ignorance. That’s why we write to each other.

The three of us? LOL? Let’s go to Chicago, eat sushi, drink a good bottle of wine, watch the Cubs, go see some rock and roll band......

Go ask Sarah. If she’s up to it , let’s go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 Stars
Oscar
Oaxaca, Mexico
Oh, we LIVE in a world of ignorance alright, but it doesn’t mean we have to be ignorant.. I think people like us who are open to ideas and trying to learn can have a positive effect, small maybe, but it still counts!

I’m game for the Cubs, although I like the Cardinals...or...come to Mexico. I’ll show ya the sites (just bring tennis shoes..I’ll teach ya how to do the duck and run survival drill when you get here.)

We’d have a blast..
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
A balanced peiece of writing. Informative as well. Excellent.
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
I sincerely appreciate this comment Ramesh, and I thank you for it. There’s so much propaganda flying around that you’d think it would be easy to be simple, clear and objective, but, writing this article, trying to get the balance right, was not easy, I must admit......
1 Stars
Marco Villa benaliwatch.blogspot..
Connecticut, United States
France’s relations with its Muslim community would greatly improve if there were more opportunities for careers in France, the CPE was an attempt at this. What France needs to do is removed labor contract law (CDI CDD) and allow employers to hire freely. Many employers in France are afraid of hiring Arabs because of the unfair stereotypes many of them have toward Arabs: lazy, irresponsible, unreliable. Thus fearing to have to pay a severance payment to an Arab if they need to fire one, they choose not to hire many (if at all) and if they do Arabs in France often more from CDD to another. I hate to be self-referential but I wrote I piece on France and economic freedom a short while ago: http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/france-needs-a-path-to-economic-growth-and-liberty/
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
I couldn’t agree more Marco. The technical aspect of what you say is perfectly right.

Your choice of words is also very interesting....

”...stereotypes many of them have toward Arabs: lazy, irresponsible, unreliable” is right on the button. You are talking about pre-conceived ideas here which do exist.

But I personally would have written ”arab” instead of ”Muslim” in this phrase;

”France’s relations with its Muslim community would greatly improve...”

I hope I’m not being overly_semantic here, but I honestly think that racism here is directed more at ”arabs” than ”muslims” (euhh, if you know what I mean LOL!)

Thanks for writing, and for the link, which I will go and read (How did I miss your article before? Zat is ze qvestion....)

Oh, and how is it that you are so informed about French affairs?

Seeya!!!
1 Stars
Marco Villa benaliwatch.blogspot..
Connecticut, United States
I have also been fascinated by the France, it’s just a very interesting country and so I do my best to keep up.
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Sarah, it is such a pleasure to read the gentle and human things you write. Like for Oscar, your comment is like a mini-article. I thank you.

Very interesting, you’re comment about the French. I understand very well why you wrote it. The French are curious people who like to know about others. They may appear a little cold in their way of going about it, but that’s because they are ”cartesian” and proud to be.

Racism? You have obviously travelled and may well agree that racism is more or less present in every country; In Europe for ”immigrational” (another new mord!!) reasons and elsewhere for ideological reasons.

Long may you run, my friend...
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
That comment is full of typos. Sorry Sarah!!
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
LOL LOL!! A writer asking a writer to shut up? That’s like a Frenchman asking a Frenchman to stop liking food!!!!!
1 Stars
Cheese Michael, you mean cheese:P
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Oscar
Oaxaca, Mexico
Or a Mexican telling another Mexican to stop eating tacos:)
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Yeah. Cheese. French Cheese. It smells strong, it tastes strong, and it’s even better with a good bottle of Bordeaux wine and a baguette. Sorry Oscar, but tacos just aint gonna do it LOL!!
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
(I meant MY comment, of course.....
1 Stars
shut up silly:P
(Global Perspectives)
2 Stars
Shahwar K
kolkata, India
A ”VERY” ENLIGHTENING POST, MR.MICHAEL SIR!

p.s.-some interesting changes are visible in your ”description”,at the top!
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Thanks Shahwar-Poet-person!!

As far as the description is concerned, I have decided to change it often, maybe even every time I come on the site! Consider it as a kind of mini blog-in-a-blog.

I hope the sun is shining where you are.............
1 Stars
Shahwar K
kolkata, India
how can you do it???

how dare you???

how can you make someone like me smile everytime by what you have to say???
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
.....it’s because you do the same. and I ”dare” with pleasure and delectation my friend....
1 Stars
Shahwar K
kolkata, India
.!.


!$!$!$

>
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
veena
delhi, India
Micheal, you have put very eloquently what I am trying to say in my tiny articles. In France it seems there was no anti Muslim propoganda so still they are not treated like terrorists,You people seemed to have a very balanced view and not give the dog a bad name and hang it attitude
Congrats.
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Veena! I am pleased to hear from you...

You are absolutely right. Whatever some people think, the West is not blaming all Muslims for current problems, and credit must be given to the French.

It may seem a paradox for a country that institutionalises secularism to an extreme, but it must be said that the French are extremely tolerant towards other cultures and religions. Strange but true.

(My personal opinion is that their intellectual curiosity comes before their ”theoretical” idea of what society is, and so much the better).

Events do strain their tolerance from time to time, but, after all the emotion, they get back to their natural state of acceptance of all that is fundamentally good.

On the subject of events that strain their tolerance, I read ten minutes ago of another horrible ”event” here that will no doubt throw petrol on the fire again. I am finishing this comment to go and write about it. It will be online in an hour....

OH, and you do NOT write ”tiny articles”. I am not in the habit of reading ”tiny articles”!!! LOL! You write extremely good articles, and that’s why I go to your page. With pleasure.......
1 Stars
Shiv
india, India
i think there is no good terrorist regardless of their faith all muslims are not terrorists & all terrorists are not muslims the saffron brigade killing innocents at no of places are equally guilty but i am drawing no comparisons to prove my secularism unlike our pseudo you know who
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
Your (excellent as usual) comment speaks for itself. If you know what I know what you mean.......Thank you Shiv. You are committed to peace. You are a good man.......and the world needs many more of them.
1 Stars
Shiv
india, India
i do not know what i am but i find the world to be a terrible place to live & am really concerned with the growing violence & intolerance are we rapidly rushing towards the stone age
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
”Rushing towards the stone age”!! Wonderful reverse-image english!
(I know someone who will be pleased to read this.....)
1 Stars
Hassan Rizvi
Lahore, Pakistan
Shiv ’

Don’t be so despondent,cheer up friend.The world was much worse before.It is only improving in many ways .And yes...in some it is worse off then before.
(Global Perspectives)
1 Stars
Shiv
india, India
a journey on an uneven path one step forward two back wards like snake & ladder very frustrating indeed
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
....Except that in snakes and ladders there’s a winner and a loser, whereas we ALL seem to be losing this game at the moment...let’s just hope that Hassan’s right....
1 Stars
Hassan Rizvi
Lahore, Pakistan
Michael,

(Health Warning : If you are a Western hate monger who sees nothing but evil in the in the East, or a Muslim hate monger who sees nothing but evil in the West, you will NOT like what follows).

Thanks for the warning.Yet even though I am none of the above - and even though your blog contains a lot of information about the secular attitude of the French towards religion in general and their comparatively tolerant attitude towards Muslims (as opposed to Arabs in particular)- I believe this is too serious an issue not to be treated more seriously.

This is because not only do I agree with you one hundred and one percent that:”there is just as much mutual defiance and hate and ignorance and hate as there was 500 years ago!!Yep, it’s like living in the middle-ages. All over again”.I further believe that this time around it will turn out far worse unless we identify the root cause of the problem and the real culprits sponsering ’radical Islamic terrorism”-or indeed global terrorism of any kind.

Clarity is the need of the hour for chaos will only create more chaos.And a chaotic society as large as the Islamic block certainly possesses the potential to destabalize the entire globe - as Russia’s economic collapse and the west’s present seemingly insurmountable economic woes are all too clearly proving.

Continued persistence with what in the last one decade has proved to be foolishness -only breeding more terrorism - is surely not wise?

Given the way things are now I will stick my neck out and predict that Palestine,Philippines,Pakistan,Iraq(and possibly Iran -but only the American and Israelis think so) and India will be immense breeding grounds for generating even vaster amounts of terrorism in the near future.

And who do you think will loose the most if this state of affairs continues.those who have worked so hard to get where they have or those who are paupers and getting some more poorer?

Don’t get me wrong please.I do appreciate the effort you are making to understand us;only what I am saying is what you perceive is far from the whole truth.
1 Stars
Michael C
Lyon, France
You’re absolutely right! I certainly don’t know the whole truth. Neither does anone else. That’s why we’re on this site, to learn from each other and try to get a better picture of what’s happening in the world. We all just have fragments of the truth.

And you’re certainly right to say that we must imperatively find the root cause of the problem. It’s too big a subject to talk about in this comment but I think part of the answer has to come from moderate Muslims themselves. Western nations can’t eradicate terrorism alone.

The stakes are high. Thousands of Muslims die each year in this violence, and the majority of the dead were killed by Muslims themselves. Those suffering the most are Muslims. I have so much compassion for the millions of peace-loving Muslims who have been cruelly placed in the front line, like lambs to the slaughter.

It’s time to find the real culprits, as you say....because with every day which goes by...........

Thank you Hassan, for taking the time to write.
1 Stars
Shiv
india, India
i think it is like the proverbial onion peel the only thing we can do is to preserve our sanity & behave in a matured, balanced fashion
hopefully the problem will get resolved some how
i only hope that a cure is found & applied successfully before the patient is dead
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