
My readers will know that I firmly believe that Palestinians must be able to live in peace, without outside interference. I believe that it applies to Israel too. I also respect the vote of the Palestinian people that put Hamas in power.
I also believe that the West should insist on the following;
Israel MUST cease fire, respect Palestinian rights, and keep agreements; Palestinians MUST halt rockets, repudiate terror, and work with moderates towards a new unity.
In that context I thought I’d give you some information I have found from independant intelligence analysis organisations here in the West, to give you a Western IB view of what’s happening, because I know (I have read them) that there are some (perfectly understandably) violent reactions in certain Mideast press circles which may sometimes speak more out of (again understandably) vengeance than objectivity.
I am NOT sending this to colour your opinion, just to help you see clear and decide by having as much info as possible.
This is a short summary of what I found.
ISRAEL
There are two theories about their intentions. The first theory is that Israel does not have the intention of stopping its military operations until there is a formal promise of, and concrete proof of, Hamas stopping its rocket firing into Israel. For Israelis, stopping their operations before Hamas stops rocketing is not an option because Hamas would not be obliged to stop afterwards and could then claim they have won a “war”. When the rockets stop, the bombing stops.
The second theory is that Israel wants the total destruction of Hamas, and there is evidence that Israel is deliberately not targeting all rocket firing sites in order to let a certain number of rockets be fired every day and thus have an excuse to keep going until they destroy Hamas completely. This does not, of course, mean that Israel could stop all firing, just that it could stop more if it wanted.
No-one thinks that the Israelis want to occupy Gaza.
HAMAS
Western intelligence agencies are sure that there is political division within Hamas. Those for continued rocket firing and those against. They are also convinced that the moderates are secretly trying to find ways of negotiating a ceasefire. The opinion here is that Hamas’s political, military and installation infrastructure has been almost totally destroyed and that the longer this continues, the harder it will be for Hamas to keep control after the fighting ends.
FIGHTING
There is evidence, again according to analysts, that Hamas is deliberately trying to attract Israeli forces into Gaza city and Khan Younés, heavily populated areas, in order to increase civilian casualties and in that way get international opinion on their side.
Analysts think that Hamas has concentrated fighters and weapons stockpiles in heavily populated areas.
THE POPULATION
Evidence is increasing that the population is beginning to ask questions about Hamas’s choices. There are several reports of Palestinian civilians seeing arms and ammunition be stored in mosques and other buildings. Fighters too. They cannot say anything because they could be shot as spies and this is said to have already happened on a couple of occasions. The Western press is also beginning to print interviews with Gazans who are worried about this tendency.
CONCLUSION
Most analysts agree that, whether they choose option one or two, the Israelis are determined to win this battle, and that they are doing so. They think that if Hamas keeps firing in retaliation, they will lose international support because high civilian casualty rates will make them ask serious questions about Hamas’s intentions. They think Hamas cannot win a military war, and so every day spent firing less and less rockets, with less and less effect, will lead even Europe to think that Hamas is prepared to let civilian lives be lost needlessly.
My take? Hamas should stop. This may backfire on them if they continue what is already a lost military battle.
The International Community, during post-conflict negotiations, must insist on strict limits being put on Israel’s and Hamas’s action in return for monitoring and aid help. Hamas was elected by the people, and should remain in power, which means I do not want them, by continuing to fire rockets which have no military impact and only lead to more civilian casualties. This only gives Israel an excuse for trying to destroy it entirely.
There are times when you have to know when to cut your losses....
Michael C
What are the agents of Human Rights Commission/ Amnesty International and United Nations doing? Sleeping ?
India, in the wake of 26/11, was asked by these institutions to maintain restraint !!Why they are now just mute spectators?
”Human Rights Commission/ Amnesty International and United Nations”.
They are not ”mute”. They say things, but that’s the problem. They can ONLY say things. Lots of things.
Arvind, apart from condemning violence by BOTH sides, which is what they are doing, (and I could give you hundreds of examples of this frustrating-non-muteness) the reality is that
THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING!!
Neither Isreal or Hamas wants to stop hostilities. So MY question is,
”What do YOU suggest they do?”
Invade Israel? Gaza? Impose a peace-keeping force?
I understand your frustration, which I share, but the sad fact is, that apart from talking, they can’t actually DO anything.
You cannot impose a ceasefire by force, and diplomatic pressure alone cannot do it.
Someone has to give here, and, my pragmatic opinion is that, given that they cannot win the ”war” and that they risk losing even more, HAMAS MUST STOP ROCKETING!
Super question Arvind. Thanks.
People keep forgetting one thing..
Israel has no ”charter” calling for the elimination of Palestine. Hamas, on the other hand, calls for the elimination of Israel, as do many other middle eastern countries.. Iran to one. Abbas’s Fatah - supposedly moderate, still publishes textbooks of maps of Palestine sans Israel. There might be some who could live in peace with Israel as their neighbour, but I bet you that most, if they were honest (and in the privacy of their homes) would admit they would prefer not to.
Let’s call a spade a spade.
What I mean is that even I, their fiercest critic, am finding it hard to imagine what they could do here.
As I asked Arvind, apart from their resolutions, what CAN they do?
However, after the guns have cooled down and the dead have been buried,, the thorny question of Hamas’s constitution will inexorably be examined. I am well aware of Israel’s obligations if they want to move forward and have stated them in the post, but, yes, Hamas’s constitution will have to change too.
And that’s part of the calling-a-spade-a-spade process that I sincerely hope Obama will initiate.
I’ll try to answer all that was said in it.
Nowhere in my post did I say Hamas was the bad guy. I just happen to think they should stop firing. That is not a value judgement, just my opinion, no sides taken.
I did NOT mention the origins of this situation, only a solution. I agree with some of your historical analysis, and but not with all of it.
I do not agree that Hamas does not use mosques (or ambulances or schools or built-up areas etc) to hide it’s activities. Moreover, if it were true, this would be the FIRST conflict in human history in which one side or another did not resort to these tactics.
Now that would be very surprising.
Moderates? Ok, if you say there are none, there are none. No problem.
You say of me personally;
”truth, that’s what u don’t want to admit. I’m sicj of people’s ignorance.”
Oh ok. As I said for moderates, ”If that’s what you think, no problem.”
Thanks again for your comment.
Fact. Any political organisation that wishes the destruction of another country and puts its policies into practice by coercing its young compatriots to go and blow themselves up with civilians all over the world (which is what Hamas leaders specifically encouraged them to do in a tv broadcast today) is a terrorist organisation.
(Not to be confused with civilian casualties in a densely-populated battle areas chosen by their defenders).
”All terrorist organizations are bad guys”.
By definition.
The question now is, is Hamas able to turn the page on that? Because if it isn’t, we shall be reading about Gaza for years to come.
And Iran and Syria and the Hezbollah would be only too pleased.
I sincerely hope they shall not have the Palestinian people served to them on a bloodied and silver platter.
I want Palestine to live, and not to be used as cannon-fodder for othr peoples’ interests.......
And thanks.
I think any sane person, and particularly those who DO NOT LIVE IN GAZA, should have enough lucidity to see some present reality in this situation.
Gun-toting foreigners is not what Gaza needs now.
Gaza needs a ceasefire.
Peace to Palestinians and Israelis alike.
Well, thanks for the tirade LOL.
I think the only thing I can think of to say here is that you really are not be able to tolerate other people, with other ideas, talking to your friends.
I am saddened to read what you wrote, and even more saddened to know why.
Please stop now Mohammed.
Thank you
Who on earth do you think you are?
Try asking more politely (but not here) in future.
Thank you.
Mohammed, this post gives an update on Western intelligence on the Gaza conflict. I am relaying information that is freely available. That’s perfectly legitimate. On this site a lot of people do it by posting newslinks. Are they supposed to prove everything written in them?
It is unreasonable of anyone to demand that a writer proves statements which are not his own.
This post is not majoritarily an opinion piece.The only statement in there that is opinion is that I think Hamas should stop rocketing. (I still do).
However, YOU have said many things that you seem to ”know”, so they are YOUR opinions.
That means I DO have the right to ask you to back them up.
But I won’t.
Because I know you can’t.
Have an excellent day.
And thanks for the very pertinent point you raised.
Western countries, like all countries, have a biased view of things, I couldn’t agree more. But then again so do the Mideast countries, Asian countries, the whole world in fact.
The trick is to ”read beween the lines”.
And, believe me Mohammed, I am not dumb enough to believe American, Israeli, Palestinian, Iranian or any other country’s intelligence analysis reports at face value.
They are ALL biased.
I read it, take what I think is worth it, and leave the rest.
I don’t trust them, don’t worry about that.
Same for you. Don’t believe it just because it seems to fit, whether it comes from your ”side” or not. Analyse it, find your point of view.
We can’t do any more, I suppose...
Excellent evening
Peace.
You are certainly right about politicians.
They have concrete and advantages to gain from winning.
You and I do not.
But we, identical citizens of this planet, have everything to lose if we do not understand their games, be they from the East, or from the West......
Peace.
Not just a word..............
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Global Opinions (36)
Despite the fact that it’s outrageous that Israel can so easily just ignore all international conventions and ratifications and resolutions and ignore basically the entire world...it goes to show that well, from now on, everyone should ignore it too...the UN just lost all credibility, forever probably....i mean, that’s assuming it had any to begin with.
I agree with most conclusions, Hamas is not being stupid, Hamas doesn’t value the Palestinian life, they’re using their people as blackmail for the international community to feel compelled to demonstrate Israel, but what I don’t understand is whether Hamas believes that the missiles they shoot at Israel are actually doing ANY damage at all...With every Israeli life lost, at least 10 palestinian lives are lost....just doesn’t make sense to me, perhaps Hamas just wants the honor of trying? Do they want to wear Israel out? Do they want to escalate matters until running out of people? I do not know the answer to that either...
Hamas just needs to at least stop getting their people killed!!!!!
Israel AND Hamas must stop this. I personally think that Obama is going to go in this direction, and that he’s going to call a spade a spade here.
This situation is no different to what it was years ago. The only beneficiaries are Israeli hawks and the Extreme wing of Hamas.
HAMAS MUST THINK OF THE PEOPLE!!!!!
And, as you quite rightly imply, Israel should start acting responsibly...
What are the agents of Human Rights Commission/ Amnesty International and United Nations doing? Sleeping ?
India, in the wake of 26/11, was asked by these institutions to maintain restraint !!Why they are now just mute spectators?
”Human Rights Commission/ Amnesty International and United Nations”.
They are not ”mute”. They say things, but that’s the problem. They can ONLY say things. Lots of things.
Arvind, apart from condemning violence by BOTH sides, which is what they are doing, (and I could give you hundreds of examples of this frustrating-non-muteness) the reality is that
THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING!!
Neither Isreal or Hamas wants to stop hostilities. So MY question is,
”What do YOU suggest they do?”
Invade Israel? Gaza? Impose a peace-keeping force?
I understand your frustration, which I share, but the sad fact is, that apart from talking, they can’t actually DO anything.
You cannot impose a ceasefire by force, and diplomatic pressure alone cannot do it.
Someone has to give here, and, my pragmatic opinion is that, given that they cannot win the ”war” and that they risk losing even more, HAMAS MUST STOP ROCKETING!
Super question Arvind. Thanks.
People keep forgetting one thing..
Israel has no ”charter” calling for the elimination of Palestine. Hamas, on the other hand, calls for the elimination of Israel, as do many other middle eastern countries.. Iran to one. Abbas’s Fatah - supposedly moderate, still publishes textbooks of maps of Palestine sans Israel. There might be some who could live in peace with Israel as their neighbour, but I bet you that most, if they were honest (and in the privacy of their homes) would admit they would prefer not to.
Let’s call a spade a spade.
What I mean is that even I, their fiercest critic, am finding it hard to imagine what they could do here.
As I asked Arvind, apart from their resolutions, what CAN they do?
However, after the guns have cooled down and the dead have been buried,, the thorny question of Hamas’s constitution will inexorably be examined. I am well aware of Israel’s obligations if they want to move forward and have stated them in the post, but, yes, Hamas’s constitution will have to change too.
And that’s part of the calling-a-spade-a-spade process that I sincerely hope Obama will initiate.
I’ll try to answer all that was said in it.
Nowhere in my post did I say Hamas was the bad guy. I just happen to think they should stop firing. That is not a value judgement, just my opinion, no sides taken.
I did NOT mention the origins of this situation, only a solution. I agree with some of your historical analysis, and but not with all of it.
I do not agree that Hamas does not use mosques (or ambulances or schools or built-up areas etc) to hide it’s activities. Moreover, if it were true, this would be the FIRST conflict in human history in which one side or another did not resort to these tactics.
Now that would be very surprising.
Moderates? Ok, if you say there are none, there are none. No problem.
You say of me personally;
”truth, that’s what u don’t want to admit. I’m sicj of people’s ignorance.”
Oh ok. As I said for moderates, ”If that’s what you think, no problem.”
Thanks again for your comment.
And thanks.
I think any sane person, and particularly those who DO NOT LIVE IN GAZA, should have enough lucidity to see some present reality in this situation.
Gun-toting foreigners is not what Gaza needs now.
Gaza needs a ceasefire.
Peace to Palestinians and Israelis alike.
Fact. Any political organisation that wishes the destruction of another country and puts its policies into practice by coercing its young compatriots to go and blow themselves up with civilians all over the world (which is what Hamas leaders specifically encouraged them to do in a tv broadcast today) is a terrorist organisation.
(Not to be confused with civilian casualties in a densely-populated battle areas chosen by their defenders).
”All terrorist organizations are bad guys”.
By definition.
The question now is, is Hamas able to turn the page on that? Because if it isn’t, we shall be reading about Gaza for years to come.
And Iran and Syria and the Hezbollah would be only too pleased.
I sincerely hope they shall not have the Palestinian people served to them on a bloodied and silver platter.
I want Palestine to live, and not to be used as cannon-fodder for othr peoples’ interests.......
Well, thanks for the tirade LOL.
I think the only thing I can think of to say here is that you really are not be able to tolerate other people, with other ideas, talking to your friends.
I am saddened to read what you wrote, and even more saddened to know why.
Please stop now Mohammed.
Thank you
Who on earth do you think you are?
Try asking more politely (but not here) in future.
Thank you.
Mohammed, this post gives an update on Western intelligence on the Gaza conflict. I am relaying information that is freely available. That’s perfectly legitimate. On this site a lot of people do it by posting newslinks. Are they supposed to prove everything written in them?
It is unreasonable of anyone to demand that a writer proves statements which are not his own.
This post is not majoritarily an opinion piece.The only statement in there that is opinion is that I think Hamas should stop rocketing. (I still do).
However, YOU have said many things that you seem to ”know”, so they are YOUR opinions.
That means I DO have the right to ask you to back them up.
But I won’t.
Because I know you can’t.
Have an excellent day.
And thanks for the very pertinent point you raised.
Western countries, like all countries, have a biased view of things, I couldn’t agree more. But then again so do the Mideast countries, Asian countries, the whole world in fact.
The trick is to ”read beween the lines”.
And, believe me Mohammed, I am not dumb enough to believe American, Israeli, Palestinian, Iranian or any other country’s intelligence analysis reports at face value.
They are ALL biased.
I read it, take what I think is worth it, and leave the rest.
I don’t trust them, don’t worry about that.
Same for you. Don’t believe it just because it seems to fit, whether it comes from your ”side” or not. Analyse it, find your point of view.
We can’t do any more, I suppose...
Excellent evening
Peace.
You are certainly right about politicians.
They have concrete and advantages to gain from winning.
You and I do not.
But we, identical citizens of this planet, have everything to lose if we do not understand their games, be they from the East, or from the West......
Peace.
Not just a word..............
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Despite the fact that it’s outrageous that Israel can so easily just ignore all international conventions and ratifications and resolutions and ignore basically the entire world...it goes to show that well, from now on, everyone should ignore it too...the UN just lost all credibility, forever probably....i mean, that’s assuming it had any to begin with.
I agree with most conclusions, Hamas is not being stupid, Hamas doesn’t value the Palestinian life, they’re using their people as blackmail for the international community to feel compelled to demonstrate Israel, but what I don’t understand is whether Hamas believes that the missiles they shoot at Israel are actually doing ANY damage at all...With every Israeli life lost, at least 10 palestinian lives are lost....just doesn’t make sense to me, perhaps Hamas just wants the honor of trying? Do they want to wear Israel out? Do they want to escalate matters until running out of people? I do not know the answer to that either...
Hamas just needs to at least stop getting their people killed!!!!!
Israel AND Hamas must stop this. I personally think that Obama is going to go in this direction, and that he’s going to call a spade a spade here.
This situation is no different to what it was years ago. The only beneficiaries are Israeli hawks and the Extreme wing of Hamas.
HAMAS MUST THINK OF THE PEOPLE!!!!!
And, as you quite rightly imply, Israel should start acting responsibly...